Peter Nagy is a prominent figure in the video game industry and a pioneer in Central Europe and Slovakia’s game development ecosystem. As the co-founder of Slovakia's oldest game development studio, Games Farm, Nagy brings over 20 years of experience in creating engaging, story-driven RPG games. He is also the founder of Grindstone, the country’s first publishing company focused on business development and support for indie game developers. In addition to these roles, he founded Game Dev Košice, an international conference for game developers, and co-founded the Slovak Game Developers Association, initiatives aimed at fostering collaboration and growth within the industry.

Tune in to learn about Peter's remarkable journey from starting a game studio at 18 to expanding into publishing, the challenges of developing games in an underdeveloped Slovakian market, and advice for aspiring entrepreneurs in the gaming sector.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

• Insights into Developing Games in an Underdeveloped Slovakian Market
• The Power of Ecosystem Building
• Advice for Starting in Central Europe
  

Resources Mentioned in this episode

• Here’s Waldo Recruiting
• Lizzie Mintus on LinkedIn
• Peter Nagy on Linkedin
• Grindstone
• Games Farm
• Slovak Game Developers Association

Episode Transcript

Welcome to the Here's Waldo podcast, where we sit down with top visionaries and creatives in the video game industry. Together we'll unravel their journeys and learn more about the path they're forging ahead. Now, let's get started with the show.

Lizzie Mintus: Hi, I'm Lizzie Mintus, founder and CEO of the Here's Waldo Recruiting. We are a boutique video game and tech recruitment firm, and this is the Here's Waldo podcast. In every episode, we dive deep into conversations with creatives, founders, and executives about their journey. You can expect to hear valuable lessons and get a glimpse into the future of the industry. 

This episode is brought to you by Here's Waldo Recruiting. We are a boutique recruiting firm for games and tech that provides quality over quantity, transparency, communication, and diversity.

Before bringing on today's guests, I'd like to give a huge thank you to Dice for making this introduction possible. If you don't go to Dice, you should. 

Today we have Peter Nagy with us. Peter is the co-founder of the oldest Slovakian development studio, Games Farm, which was established in 2001 and is still growing and developing better and better games.

He is also the founder of the first and still only Slovakian publishing company called Grindstone. He does many things, so he is also the founder of an international conference for game developers, Game Dev Kosice, for eight years. He is also the founder of a non-profit regional initiative, Game Dev Kosice, co-founder of Slovakian Game Developers Association. We'd love to hear more on that. He has an MD, and he is a software engineer. He speaks at events. He does it all. 

Let's get started. Thank you for being here. I loved hearing your story at Dice and how you're doing all these different things that all funnel together.

I would love to start by hearing a bit about the state of the game industry in Slovakia, both when you started the studio and to where it is today. 

Peter Nagy: Yeah first of all, thank you very much for the invitation and for the opportunity. It's really great to be here and speak a little bit more about what we do and why we do it, and maybe a little bit of history because we wouldn't be here should not history play its part.

So as you may know, Slovakia is a very little tiny country in central Europe. So we are the small ones. I think, maybe actually the smallest one here, definitely surrounded by bigger countries like Poland which is very famous for game dev. And Slovakia was left aside, partially because of its size, like 5 million in the country. And partially because we have been to Czechoslovakia before. And after the split, basically everything stayed in Czechia. So basically Slovakia was an empty ground. 

And we started in 2001 developing. I was like, I don't know, 18, 19 years old, knowing nothing and knowing it all at the same time. So no limits, no boundaries. It was fun. It was a really great beginning. At the beginning, we were not really planning to do game development. It was like, okay, we will create a software company. We will deliver cheap software for the west. One of our co-founders was German and he was supposed to bring the business in. 

Unfortunately, we were sitting here and he didn't manage to get any business. So we were discussing, okay, what can we do? We have been playing a lot of the games, of course. And then it gets boring after playing Counter Strike for two months. And then we realized okay, we should do something and try to change things. So that's why we started doing what we wanted, what we liked the most basically. And that was creating games. 

And we created the first demo. We sent it out and got very good feedback. So it was like, wow, let's do it. And that started rolling. And in 2004, we released our first game called Heretic Kingdom. So like Heretic Kingdoms, the Inquisition, it was isometric ARPG

It wasn't super successful in terms of commercial success, but it got nice reviews- 70%+ in Metacritics. Players love it, it was the first momentum which kept us in the direction of game development in Slovakia. And back in the days, Slovakia was very uncharted territory. There was literally one development company in Bratislava, but it was very far, 400 kilometers. We only read about it in the newspapers. And there was the internet, which was just very in it's beginning. So we were just learning by doing and failing. And that came through the entire development cycle. 

Now it obviously has progressed much better because of all the activities and also the internet accessibility and the knowledge. And everything is much better now, so it can be really compared. Before it was just distribution with retail and boxes and everything, so not anymore now.

Lizzie Mintus: That's a great story. So you had multiple co-founders. What made you decide to even start a company in the first place at the age of 18 or 19? 

Peter Nagy: I'd like to create in the first place. So that's, I think the most, the biggest motivation for me to create something. And then the entrepreneurship, a little bit, obviously I have to be a little bit entrepreneurial spirit as well, like starting all these activities. It's fun making something and making some changes, maybe a little bit, little by little. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah. Okay, so you have a few people and you decide you want to make a game. How did you decide? Was it just a game that you wanted to play? Did you assess the market and figure out, we can hold the market here? Tell me about, what is just making a passion project at first?

Peter Nagy: Yeah, definitely. You know back in the days, market research, like why, what, and where should we get the data? Literally, we were in the land of nothing so we were happy to create something which works. 

My most favorite games were Baldur's Gate, Fallout and Diablo. So that was the affection which affected all our games. We always stick to this ARPG kind of genre, even though like in the meantime, we did a lot of different genres to pay the bills and earn the money. But at the same time, we always tried in the background to create some RPGs, mostly this ARPG kind of a game. So I suppose we were heavily affected by the games which we played before. 

Lizzie Mintus: And did you self publish your game, or how did you go about figuring out how to distribute initially, and then how did that evolve? 

Peter Nagy: We have been working with the publishers back in the days. There was not really any other option like boxes. Obviously, we cannot do what we could, but in theory, but I mean, we had no experience, no set up, no distribution networks, no contacts. So we worked with the publishers for 15 years. And we still work with to an extent, but since 2015, we have had a lot of bad experiences with the publishers. They often went bankrupt when they were supposed to start paying us the royalties. And it's difficult also to control the royalties flows and the reports. It was kind of frustrating at times. 

We didn't have luck. I'm sure there are great publishers as well. It's just we didn't have luck to meet any. So in 2015, I decided that I would be doing the same things over and over again and failing and bringing the money for everybody else than ourselves. So that's why I founded Grindstone as a kind of our own publishing. 

It took me like seven, eight years to learn by failing that it's not so easy, bring the team together. And this year and the next one, we are launching three games. Our first releases, which are more really published rather than before just creating the game and putting it on the market. 

Again, I learned my lessons and the fact that I'm coming from development and myself, it's a different approach. Usually the publishers are built up from the top down instead of from the bottom up. I think that's a major difference in what we do. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah. You understand the problems because you had the problems and then you make the solution. That's great. 

So how would you say that, from an entrepreneurial lens, what are the differences in creating a studio that makes games versus creating a publisher? What have you learned? Has the approach been pretty similar? You said building the team was hard. Tell me about the differences besides the obvious ones. 

Peter Nagy: To be honest, I think development is harder. To be honest we don't have any successful published games, but looking at it from an overall perspective, entrepreneurship, especially, a publisher can distribute the risks. Usually, developers are focused on one project. If that one fails, then there is a big problem with the developer studio. And with the development, there is so much work you have to do to make the game done. 

And managing a team of medium scale, even 10, 15, 20 people, it's usually more than the publisher has. You have to combine different experiences, different proficiencies and plan it and execute it and be controlled by the publishers, delivering on time. That's a really different experience. 

Publishers, I think from business wise, it's a safer ground because what we can do is you can distribute between the multiple opportunities and you are basically in full control all the time. You control which games are performing well. You can also even have some data at the moment. So you can evaluate which one compared platforms the best and focus your efforts on the games which have the most potential, which is unlucky for us, which are not so successful in terms of data performance and such. So, from entrepreneurship, I would definitely consider more for publishing. But at the same time it's less rewarding because it's not so creative. And the only way you can really create something is like making the game yourself. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, that's true. What do you think about publishing in 2024 and 2025? What does that mean versus what it meant when you started? How are you approaching truly adding value as a publisher? 

Peter Nagy: It's getting recorded. Publishing is getting very hard. Like getting exposure, the market is so saturated with the games and just getting anything visibility, also the risks are definitely increasing for releasing any games, which in the end applies also for development. And the developers create the games, which have to be put on the bucket. 

So the global situation, I don't think it's very favorable for making content but still I hope. And we believe that if the game is good, and the development costs are kept within a certain level of risks, then it makes a viable proposal for good games. If there is at least some basic market research done before, and whom you are addressing and so on, which sometimes developers don't do. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah. So I had a guy named Joe from Solstern which helps you from the very early stages, understand what your player base wants- what they say they want, but how they play what they really want. And so I think there's also a lot more tech coming out in this space. If you want to listen and you want the feedback early, you can get it. 

So you talked about low development costs, which are coming from Slovakia versus, I'm in Seattle, many of our listeners are in San Francisco. What that means is probably drastically different. So, on the publishing side, are you publishing games from just Slovakia? Are you publishing games from certain regions in Europe or certain regions in the world that are lower cost. How do you think about finding an appropriate cost center? 

Peter Nagy: At the moment, that's also because of all our activities, which we do like regional positioning of ourselves and such. We have a good position here. We have our own conference. We are part of the Slovakian Game Developer Association. We are very well connected with the indie scene. We support it. And because of that, for us, the primary pillar is, you were selected at the beginning, but we are already looking beyond Slovakia borders for Central Europe, because one thing is, you know, it's valid for the entire Central Europe, it's low cost and fairly high quality.

So that's our starting position, but we hope that we soon will get to the position that we will be able to look further, but it will require more costs, more risks and such. So first we focus on where we are best known and what's the best competitive advantage. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, that makes sense. And I want to go back to Games Farm. So you're very focused on RPGs. And what do you feel, in this space, what is the secret sauce? Or what really makes a great RPG in your experience? And do you have any stories about what decisions you've made that have led to a better rated more well received game versus less in this space?

Peter Nagy: It's a tough one because every game is very specific and you can easily kill the game by one single decision. So I think, I just recently read somewhere that making a great game is more about not screwing things up too much, rather than making something very unique. And this applies, I think to, to a broad extent. The main thing is not to do it too originally and not become too many great ideas and put it together. What you should look for is a traditional formula and bring some innovation to it. So it shouldn't be too much, but because then you may be suddenly misplacing your target audience. Somewhere where you didn't know, where you maybe don't want to, or you just don't have the control.

So for example, now we are working on the Jotun Slayer, Hordes of Hell and it's like a very traditional formula of vampire survivors. We just push the production quality to a high level. It's not that original to be honest, but at the same time, people love it. It's just finding the balance between being a little bit innovative, but bringing something which distinguishes you from the rest of the card but still touch the same card.

Lizzie Mintus: Okay. What are you doing? Can you say what you're doing that's going to be so innovative in your upcoming title? 

Peter Nagy: In the first place, production quality, it's more looking like Diablo 4 visuals and bringing this traditional vampire survivors kind of formula in Viking settings. So it's a kind of mixture of this higher production quality and the gameplay of the vampire survivors.

Lizzie Mintus: Okay. Anything else to look forward to from your studio? Any announcements or things to keep an eye on either company? 

Peter Nagy: Well, it's our first, to an extent, self published game from Games Farm. And before we have been always working with the publishers. And two years ago, we tried to create a new Vikings game and pitched it to different publishers, but the landscape for pitching the games was not very friendly last year. So we didn't manage to find any partner. And that's also what led us to creating something smaller in terms of scope, production, quality and costs, especially. And that's why we created this Jelten Slayer game. 

So eventually like all failures may lead to something new and something exciting and some positive things. And what I see in the past, it was always like, a failure usually led us to something new. So it was always like going up, down, up, down and going up a little bit. So basically learning by failing is a proper word, I would say. 

Lizzie Mintus: I think that's one of my biggest takeaways from running 80 plus episodes on this podcast. Most people do not create the hit game right away. They iterate. And they have all these failures and they have all these ups and downs. So thank you for that. 

In terms of self publishing, how are you thinking about discoverability for your game? It sounds like you really know this market and you've made games for this audience for a long time, but how do you plan for them to find out about your game? Or do you feel like you have a big enough following in the region already from all that you do that will give you an answer? 

Peter Nagy: Definitely not. Like before, it was always linked with the publishers and such. So we didn't manage to build up our own community too much, to be honest, which is our failure, but then it's always difficult. When you have publishing partners to build up something for all, it's not in their interest in the end. They always want you to be part of them. 

So what we are trying to do is, we try to utilize every possible aspect to the publishing. So starting from YouTubers, social media, expo, going to shows. Like DICE, for example, where we met. But also more traditional shows out there, Gamescom and such. We're trying to get as much visibility as we can. Like being part of every Steam event which you possibly can apply for. Obviously Steam is one of the main distribution channels at the moment. 

Working with the first parties, that's one of the keys as well. All our newest games are cross platform as well. We believe that first part relations are substantial. So we're working with the press and trying to convince them that our game is really one of the most appealing games, which they can play for now and give us some space.

We're doing everything, that's the only way- like putting it all together slowly by slowly, little step, little steps. I like building up the audience. Yeah. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah. I was inspired by you in general at Dice because you're doing so many different things and you have a lot of energy and you're taking on a bunch of different initiatives.

So you started this conference what year? 

Peter Nagy: 2017. That was the first year. 

Lizzie Mintus: Okay. And what were your thoughts? What did you set out to do when you wanted to start this conference in 2017? And what did you learn? The first year, what went right? What opportunities were there? 

Peter Nagy: Was there anything right? To be honest I don't think so. I mean, the first year was very compelling. Obviously, I was alone. I was doing guest management, moderating, and planning. And in the end, I was even able to pay the bills for it. So we have had one partner which paid, I don't know, maybe 2000 euros. Obviously costs were much higher. 

 I just wanted to create something to bring the community together and also create the opportunity to show people in the region and present them with the opportunities from the outside. Bring our partners, introduce it maybe in a less closed environment- so creating an open opportunity for everybody to join and get inspiration and connect with each other. So it was kind of an evolution of small meetups, which I organized here on a monthly basis. 

And then it led to something bigger like Game Days. And then Game Days evolved year over year. And more people came in and they said, Oh, that's great- what you are doing here. So they joined the journey and wanted to improve it. And now it's more about the team rather than myself. So it's all about people. So not really about me. You need to create the initial momentum and then some people build. Just start seeing the same things and people will join.

Lizzie Mintus: And how big is your conference these days? 

Peter Nagy: Last month it was like 1,200 people attending. And it already has some ripples here in Slovakian landscape. There is actually substantial art community building up, here. So we even have a local art space, which is a small space for artists to meet up. It was founded just as a kind of impact of this conference. Some people came back from the outside, from other countries to help other artists. 

And this event now also serves as a kind of meetup for the global artist community from the entire globe. Very famous and talented artists came here. And they bring their fellowships and all the interesting artists from the entire, not only region, but even from the entire globe here. So it's kind of like artists meeting up, and part, game dev conference. 

We are also using it as a kind of business development tool. So it's a great opportunity for us to bring partners together and show them what we are working on and create more connections between the regional ecosystem and our partners. And then, of course, the new partners are coming and the great thing about this is that anyone you can find some overlap on the topics. So whomever you meet, you can find common grounds. It might be development, it might be publishing, or it might be a conference, or Slovakian Game Developer Association. It is very easy to find topics to discuss. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, that's the best part about games. Congrats on putting that together.

I know a lot of companies, from the state side, are thinking about their development costs as it seems like it's only exponentially getting higher. And there's a lot of interest in expanding into more affordable regions that maybe strategically align from a culture standpoint. You want to find somewhere that integrates well with your North American team. 

For anyone who's listening, who's interested in starting to do business in Slovakia, maybe they can find you directly. But what resources are there to just understand the landscape and how to do business and who to work with and who's available? It sounds like maybe they want to attend your conference, but where else can they look? 

Peter Nagy: The entire Central Europe is, I think, very underdeveloped. A part of Poland, maybe Czech Republic, they are the most successful. Ukraine to an extent, but it's a more complicated landscape. But Hungary, for example, Slovakia, Croatia, Serbia, there's I think a lot of opportunities there as well. 

There are some bigger companies in Romania, for example, but this scene is very underdeveloped as well. So we see there is a potential for building up this indie scene. All I need is a little bit of what we've done here and just replicate this and bring this to some other underdeveloped regions as well. We are still very underdeveloped as well. So there's a lot of growth potential here, but the entire central Europe is, I think, a very good landscape for many external Western companies. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, it is. But if I'm an American, and I don't know much about Central Europe, how would I go about figuring out, do I want to start in Slovakia? Do I want to start in Hungary? How do I assess what region to start doing business in? And is there a conference I should go to? Are there bigger players that will help me understand the landscape because as when you operate a business, sometimes you need to do something that you have no idea about.

I just saw a LinkedIn post from a guy in Finland who wrote, I'm trying to get insurance for my two American employees and I have no idea where to start, right? So how do you then understand the landscape?

Peter Nagy: What you should definitely do is check local events- get there and see yourself. That's definitely the first recommendation. Second, I would go for game developer associations. There is the Czech Developer Association, Slovakian Game Developer Association, Serbian Developer Association who knows their landscapes. Usually they can connect you very well, depending on what you might be looking for. I think that's the best. 

And of course, I'd go to the regular events and just look for people from the territory, maybe like bigger companies and try to discuss with them, ask them for advice, and how they can help you. That would be my list.

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, that's a good idea for the game developer association, especially, because sometimes it's overwhelming. And you just have to find a starting point. But I feel like a lot of business, the way it happens is that you're at a conference and you meet somebody, right? Like I sit by you at the conference, and then I start to learn about Slovakia. Then I get interested. 

Peter Nagy: Yeah. For example, we've been collecting data for many years now. So when we create the compiled report on all the landscape in Slovakia, like s gda, sk, and then you can check out the annual report and they will find all the companies, all the performance, like how it's growing, how many people are involved. I think we do it quite nicely and structure the entire data. In a very transparent way. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, I've seen that from some other countries as well. Other countries have it organized so much better than us Americans. 

Peter Nagy: So it's much smaller, it's smaller scale. 

Lizzie Mintus: It is very different. That's for sure.

So I'm always curious to hear stories. And do you have a story about just a really hard business decision or game decision that you've had to make? I mean, running two companies for 20 plus years is amazing. It's still in business. It's doing well. You've started this other company. But like you said, in a game, it's just one wrong decision, but in business, you're making all these decisions all the time.

So you have a story about a really hard decision you had to make on what direction to go, or what type of business to start, what game to make, what partner to work with, and how do you think about approaching these hard problems? 

Peter Nagy: I usually just make the decision and just throw it behind. You cannot just leave that and then iterate it. So it's just, you make the decision and go forward. 

Lizzie Mintus: You're a fast decision maker. 

Peter Nagy: Sometimes too fast, to be honest. But yeah. You don't want to waste too much time, but at the same time, you need to sometimes. The problem is, when you think too much, you might overthink it. So you can find the logic behind it from any angle, if you think too much about it and sometimes it's very competitive logic which delivers your different results.

And sometimes this first time decision might be the best, like an instinctive kind of decision. I'm not saying it's always. Sometimes I fail. But to be honest, often, our decisions were driven primarily by the needs, and by the existential needs. We have to pay the bills. We have to pay the salary. So it was several times that we have been in a situation, where literally we were either closing or assigning. And eventually like we managed to sign, but it was like this or that, like literally this month. So this kind of situation happened maybe three, four times over 20 years. Its existence, the life, which basically drives you, drives your decision at certain moments. So not my preference, maybe. Or it's not planned decisions. It's just, you want to pay the bills and move forward and live to fight another day. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah. I guess that is the decision? What is that? That's a bad or worse decision. Like you're in a bad situation. Which way are you going to go? But yeah, I think being faced with that kind of challenge does make it really clear. And every business has its ups and downs. 

One of my mentors told me. My business just took off when I started and then it plateaued a bit. And I was like, what is going on? He's a sweet guy. And he's like, Lizzie, business is not a straight line. He's right, but it's hard when you're on the up to have the plateau or have the down. 

Peter Nagy: Yeah. Well, everybody is trying to get in the business right on the upper side. I mean, there are some unicorn cases which kind of do have immediate success. And then I think there are a lot of failures behind it. It's just, people don't see it. And true unicorns, I think there are very few. 

Lizzie Mintus: Would you be open to sharing? Are there any failures? There are things that went terribly wrong that you wouldn't really learn from? 

I mean, the point of my podcast and why I started it is you have so much experience and what are the hacks you can share? What are the stories you can share that someone listening can take away and say, Hey, I learned to do this thing, or I learned about this thing I should never do. Or, there's an experience somebody else had and how they got through it. 

Peter Nagy: Yeah. To be honest, I think I am heavily affected by my past. That's my box, which I'm still living in. I'm trying to get out of it and look from the outside but it's difficult and I think to an extent, my dependency on the publishers is part of this box. And that we are always thinking in the context of publishing, which also led me to maybe doing publishing myself and maybe helping others to avoid the pitfalls, which I have been through. 

But for the devs, I would say that sometimes it requires the courage to go with your own product and do a step by step buildup. At the same time, the right partner can help you a lot. That was always my kind of wish, that we'd have the partner to amplify our potential. But eventually we had to become our own partner and try to amplify ourselves. But still, if you find the right partner, I think they can help you a lot.

And my biggest kind of learning is that it's all about the people we are working with and this great community, again, the open community is like fucking amazing. And I really, so much, enjoy being here and a part of it. It's just crazy. I really enjoy going to the events and speaking with the people because I learn so much and find so many great talents and people, and learn all the stories.

I think that's the biggest value, which every developer who cares not just about the product, but if you are thinking more about making sustainable business, maybe in the long term, they should be focusing on building your network, finding the right partners. Maybe all you need is just one guy who can introduce it, then another, and then it would lead to another. So it's all about this network, and that's the biggest value. It will take you wherever you want, if you give life a chance. 

Lizzie Mintus: I agree. Network is everything. It might be a gal, it might be a lady who introduces you, just to clarify. You never know. 

And you said evaluating your partner is the most important thing, and sometimes you can't find the right partner. How do you know when the partner is right for you? I mean, a lot of it probably are the terms agreeable, which right now the answer is probably no, but it comes down to the people, like you said. So what signs do you look for? What kind of questions would you ask to make sure that the partnership aligns?

Peter Nagy: To be honest, it's not that much about the business. It's more about the philosophy and the mindset. So this is something which you may not be looking for, like specific business questions. It's just like trying to get the contextual point of view from your potential partners and trying to learn as much about their characters- rather than direct business decisions because business is still just a business. And it can be different, but if the character is right, the people are reliable and you find that there is a chemistry and understanding mutual philosophy and interest, then you can create the business case. It doesn't have to be your original business case. You can find the business case together. And even if it fails for one, two times, maybe three times, it will work out. But if there is an alignment on the philosophy and on the understanding, then these people may be around you for a while. And then you will be creating some new opportunities. And that's my way of thinking. 

So I'm not necessarily pushing my vision. I'm trying to create something from all the connections, which I have and all the great people and trying to bring them together so that there are some cross checks on the opportunities. And then they can get together. And maybe I don't even need to be part of it, it's just, if they can create the opportunity together, maybe that will lead to another opportunity, which I can be part of in the future. So I'll just be making things happen. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah. I think that's not so talked about- the reason why there are so many disasters right now. People were just looking for the partner that gave them the best terms or the best deal, or anybody that would give them money and all of a sudden you're in this marriage with the wrong person. So you're probably going to get divorced and it doesn't work out so well. 

A lot of people are like, I need to get money. Okay. This person is interested. They're going to give me money, but not so much consideration. Do we share values? Do we have the same mission? Are we going to be able to work together? There is a lot of that right now. 

Peter Nagy: Yeah, but sometimes it takes quite a lot. So you still have to pay the bills. So that's the downside of this. 

Lizzie Mintus: You have to make a business decision to continue your company, but yeah, sometimes then I think you end up with the wrong person, but that's all part of the learning and experience, like you said.

Peter Nagy: Entrepreneurship, right? 

Lizzie Mintus: Entrepreneurship, yes. The next venture is going to be a good one. 

I have one last question. You have worked for yourself for a long time and had many ups and downs, and if you were to give someone who wants to start a publisher or a game development studio, anywhere in the world, some advice about mindset or what they should think about really as they're starting. I think a lot of people are like, okay, I'm going to start, but you don't always think about all the key things you need to put in place at the beginning. And what piece of advice would you give to them? 

Peter Nagy: To be honest, it depends. There are two ways to approach it. It's like business goes first, or the team first. And you either take the people which you have available, like around yourself and who are maybe willing to share their life with you, and then create something which fits them. Or like you take the business idea and then try to bring the people which are compatible with your business plan.

So I think both ways can work well. But the problem with the business first, it's it's more possible. Like you're trying to force some things, your vision through, which is plausible, but it can be more difficult because you need to bring the right people. And finding the right people is I think the biggest challenge in the industry, like in life as well, like finding the right partner, right? It might be difficult, not impossible. It just could eventually cost you more money, but it will lead you to your goal which you already set up at the beginning.

On the other hand, like starting people first, it may lead you to some uncharted territories where you may not have been expecting to end, but it could be still a nice journey and potentially profitable one if it all works out. Okay, now the question is if the journey or the goal is first. So that's up to, I think, everybody to decide. 

Lizzie Mintus: I've never heard anybody explain it like that, so that's good. 

Peter Nagy: Me neither, I just came up with it. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah. Finding the right people is always the hardest part. That's why I have a job. It's my profession.

Peter Nagy: It's the right questions. 

Lizzie Mintus: It is about asking the right questions, but it's also about seeing that connection and reading between the lines, right? You say you want this, but I know that you need this type of person and then figuring out okay, you, what point are you at?

Are you at the point where you just need to ship and you need someone with this specific experience to come plug in and do that thing and fix whatever it is that's wrong with your game? Or are you at the beginning and you need someone with this type of personality. So it's like a puzzle. And then you have to understand the other person and the company. I love it. It's so much fun. I feel like I stumbled into recruiting, but it's perfect for me. It's just what I should do. I love it. 

We've been talking to Peter Nagy, CEO at Grindstone and Games Farm, organizing conferences on IGDA, doing all the things.

Peter, where can people go to contact you, learn more about you, or attend your conference? I love it. 

Peter Nagy: They can go to gamesfarm.com, or grindstone.sk. And just go to LinkedIn and find Peter Nagy, Grindstone. And then just ping me anywhere. There are so many channels now, right? So I can't even follow them enough. 

Yeah, it would be lovely to hear from anybody. Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here and speak with you. Very great questions. I always enjoy speaking when the right questions are asked and basically initiates my brain a little bit in a different way than just like about daily operations, dealing with the staff on a daily basis. So thank you very much for the opportunity. 

Lizzie Mintus: Thank you for being here.

Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. To catch all the latest from Here's Waldo, you can follow us on LinkedIn. Be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes. We'll see you next time.