Perrin Kaplan is a global strategic marketing and communications C-level executive known for her award-winning work in tech, entertainment, consumer products, gaming, mixed reality, AI, and more. Noted in several books, documentaries, and publications, Perrin co-founded female-owned Zebra Partners, a global communications and integrated marketing firm following her role as Vice President of Marketing and Corporate Affairs for Nintendo.

Perrin shares her remarkable journey, from her early career in government to becoming a pivotal force in video game marketing. Tune in to gain valuable insights into branding, differentiation, strategic partnerships, crisis management, and the evolution of the gaming industry, along with a glimpse into Perrin's impactful nonprofit work through Saving Great Animals, a large active nonprofit rescuing and having homed more than 9000 dogs.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: 

• The Art of Personal Branding
• Navigating Business Crises with Strategy
• The Power of Internal Branding and Authentic Leadership
• Tips for Effective Communication
• The Importance of Networking and Mentorship for Business Growth
• Launching Successfully: Strategies for Visibility in a Crowded Market
• Adapting to the Fast-Paced Evolution of the Industry
• Saving Great Animals Non-Profit

Resources Mentioned in this episode

• Here’s Waldo Recruiting
• Lizzie Mintus on LinkedIn
• Perrin Kaplan on LinkedIn
• Zebra Partners
• Saving Great Animals
• Ed Fries on the Here's Waldo Podcast

Episode Transcript

Welcome to the Here's Waldo Podcast, where we sit down with top visionaries and creatives in the video game industry. Together, we'll unravel their journeys and learn more about the path they're forging ahead. Now, let's get started with the show.

Lizzie Mintus: I am Lizzie Mintus, founder and CEO of Here's Waldo Recruiting, a boutique video game recruitment firm. This is the Here's Waldo podcast. In every episode, we dive deep into conversations with creatives, founders, and executives about what it takes to be successful. You can expect to hear valuable lessons from their journey and get a glimpse into the future of the industry.

This episode is brought to you by Here's Waldo Recruiting, a boutique recruitment firm for the game industry. We value quality over quantity, transparency, communication, and diversity. We partner with companies, creatives, and programmers to understand the why behind their needs. Before introducing today's guest, I want to give a big thank you to Ed Fries.

Ed, you are great. I was reflecting on you before I did this podcast, and everybody has a story about how Ed helped them in their career, and If anybody is raising money or wants an example of how to be a humble leader, please look to Ed. Thank you for all that you do, Ed. 

Today we have Perrin Kaplan with us. Perrin is a global strategic marketing and communications C level executive known for her award winning work. Her company, Zebra Partners, focuses on tech, entertainment, gaming, mixed reality, AI, and more. Perrin. As noted in several books, documentaries, and publications, she was Vice President of Marketing and Communications for Nintendo.

Perrin, thanks for being here. 

Perrin Kaplan: Thanks for having me. It's always so fun to just chit chat. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, so you were obviously, were and are the queen of Nintendo, and I want to get into that. But first, I want to talk more about your company, Zebra Partners. Can you please share more about all the areas that you cover and what you do. 

Perrin Kaplan: Oh, yes. We work in multiple areas. We're really an integrated marketing and PR firm. So the science of all that honestly blends together anymore, things are not so siloed in terms of like the consumers that receive the information. So we do everything from social media to PR and messaging and branding and media relations and helping people give speeches and grow in their leadership roles and mock reviews. 

It's a pretty wide range and we focus on gaming, all kinds of emerging tech, which includes VR, Web3, Cloud, Apple Vision Pro, which is very current. And also we have a really awesome sort of family product division, which is tabletop games and puzzles and all that good stuff that people loved to hang out and do during COVID. And that's a really strong form of entertainment for consumers today. 

We have a team of 36. We started as remote. I should have written a byline at that time because it's worked really beautiful. We are all over the U S and we meet every morning at a certain time. Everybody logs on and it's a stand up and we talk for 15 minutes and it's full of hot items, new items, help that's needed, and a lot of laughter, which is a really key component to keeping your culture great.

We're all very casual with each other and, the best team ever.

Lizzie Mintus: I love to hear that. 

Perrin Kaplan: Now 15 years old. 

Lizzie Mintus: Wow. Congrats. And you have two women, amazing business partners. Can you share more about how you came together and how your skills complement each other? 

Perrin Kaplan: They so much do. We consider ourselves like three big slices of the same pie. We can overlap really well, but we have distinctively different skills. Beth and Kelly are my two business partners. They worked for me at Nintendo and we started Zebra together. And every zebra has a different stripe and every client or company has a different need. We worked with a lot of agencies during our time at Nintendo, and they all did a really, really great job.

But I think curating programs that are built from your sales goal, backward, is what makes more sense. So let's just say you get coverage in the Wall Street Journal. If that's not your audience, honestly, I don't think that matters unless you want to send it to your mom. Things like that. So we started it, we're women owned, and are just continuing to have a blast.

We each have different sort of sections of the company, but we work together in terms of culture and everything else. And, it's just been great. We are very lucky. 

Lizzie Mintus: Congrats on all of your success. And I love that you're a woman owned business. I love to work with other women owned businesses, especially in games.

Perrin Kaplan: That's right.

Lizzie Mintus: Have to stick together. A lot of my listeners are founders and executives. So if somebody is leading a company or starting a company, let's say they're earlier, what should they consider holistically from a marketing branding PR perspective in the really early days? 

Perrin Kaplan: In terms of for themselves?

Lizzie Mintus: Not a personal brand, for building a company.

Perrin Kaplan: Would say that I'm seeing a lot of shiny object tracing. And so now it's all about AI, which I do think is more permanent. First it was crypto and then web three and metaverse and all these different things, which I think is fine, but if you don't have a unique story to tell, or if you're not filling an empty niche in the marketplace, then you have to really reassess how well you're going to do and how you're going to get to where you go because copycat companies that are identical to others that are in the marketplace, unless you fill a huge hole that they don't, your road is going to be straight up like that. And honestly, marketing and PR can't help you.

You have to start with something that's a core desired service or product. It can help you, but it won't really help your sales in the way that, you assume it should because you're not differentiating yourself. So differentiation isn't really at the heart of everything. 

People always have to remember the word news comes from the word new. And it needs to be something that's a trend that fills a hole. It's something really dramatic and amazing. It's something that people are talking about and want to hear more about. And you have to have a really decent logical business model because the first time you speak as a leader in part of developing your skills that way, or a reporter or what have you, if you don't have a really compelling story to tell.

That explains why you should exist and you're in a business model that's going to work. You're going to be up against a lot of challenges. It's art. What we do is really art mixed with science. Businesses have to have some science to how they're going to get where they want to go.

Lizzie Mintus: Okay. So have a meaningful reason for why you started your company. Basically a compelling story, not just it's hot and new. Have some chat GPT plugin and now you're an AI company. 

Perrin Kaplan: Yeah. And it could work if there's an immediate need and people gravitate toward you. But then those companies are also challenged, how are they going to keep all these people that have shown up? You're literally as good as what you did the day prior. Growing a business is very hard. It's a lot of work and you have to be super strategic and then you have to keep at it. You cannot take anything for granted.

Lizzie Mintus: I like rolling a rock up the hill. Second you stop rolling, get rolled over. 

Perrin Kaplan: It's true. And people think, Oh, I'll leave this thing. corporate job and I'll go start my own company. They have to really think three times about doing that. It can be really effective, but you're entering the forest, a lot of trees, and you have to figure out how your tree is going to stand out.

Lizzie Mintus: So if you do have a compelling reason, you're not having a copycat business, you have this burning desire, you've done adequate market analysis, you have a good idea for your company or what you believe to be a good idea, you're really a good company that's starting out. You have your ducks in a row.

Then how do I think about building my brand? Like at what stage do I start to think about marketing? What are the baby steps once you have a solid foundation? 

Perrin Kaplan: And it can be where you let the world know you're there. And then you continue to do your potions and your magic, and then you get to another growth point where now you really can start serving people or people really need to know about you.

The one thing I will recommend is that companies that are driven solely by someone who's highly creative, but does not have business management, which means staying in different bowling lanes and being really, really organized. If it's just the creative person only, that to me is a recipe for failure.

If you're business only, you have to have some kind of culture and people that are creative around you to help make things fresh and new. And so the combination of that, I believe is super essential. Unless your business is a straight business, like a trucking service or something where you have to have happy employees, but you're providing a service that's pretty specific. And I've seen companies fail because they have someone super creative and has ideas, which is great but have none of plans land. And then the other way around, right? 

Surround yourself with people and be really humble. Take advice, but also know your path. You need to use that sixth sense of something's going to work or not work, or we're trying or not trying.

Lizzie Mintus: That's good advice.

Perrin Kaplan: Pivot quickly. 

Lizzie Mintus: And you talked about having the creative and the business person. I do this business coaching program and they talk about the visionary and the integrator and you can't have one without the other. You have to have someone with the crazy ideas and someone to shoot down most of the crazy ideas, but know which one to stick with.

Perrin Kaplan: And that's really, really, really true. And in fact, my business partners, one in particular, when we're talking about this subject, we'll take a creative suggestion. And she'll think about how that would roll out. And then once we land on, yes, we're all really excited about this, she gets right to work on the very specifics of how it's going to happen. When, where, how, why, who, while you're in the kitchen, mixing your creative recipe. 

Lizzie Mintus: That's the best. Congrats on having all your partners. 

Perrin Kaplan: Yeah. 

Lizzie Mintus: Talk to me about personal branding and how does somebody go about creating a personal brand in 2024. 

Perrin Kaplan: I think some of the components that are essential is, having something that is very thoughtful and meaningful to say so that people can learn from you.

People have to remember leaders are people that are to be learned from. They have their own mentors that they learn from because we all are supposed to learn every single day. I think people that are a little more humble, you get people in gaming who are that way, and then you get people that are pretty boastful, which is fine and good, but it's because their current company is doing well.

At the end of the day, ego should not be part of it. Really, the strongest leaders are ones that don't talk about themselves, but they talk about what others can learn from them. When you're speaking, make sure it's a point. That's a point or points that are really relevant that those attendees really can take away and learn from.

So know your audience. Your audience is going to be different every time. So make sure you know who you're trying to teach and then be open to their questions or feedback. Because again, you might have a great suggestion from someone and then revise it for the next time you go around. 

Lizzie Mintus: Good advice. What is...

Perrin Kaplan: Also, don't be scared. 

Lizzie Mintus: Okay. Tell me more. 

Perrin Kaplan: Well, people get very nervous. I was a spokesperson at Nintendo for a very long time. Thousands of interviews, and I give presentations a lot. I was lucky enough to speak at USC to graduates a couple weeks ago, and that was super fun. But, don't be scared. You really know more about your subject than people in the audience, and they want to hear from you.

And humans just, public speaking is such a scary thing for people. A lot of people do anything to get out of doing it, but honestly, everybody has something to bring to the table. And that's your moment to just teach or pontificate or whatever it is that you're there to do, and have confidence in yourself. You wouldn't be where you are at if you didn't have something valid to teach others. 

Lizzie Mintus: Is that why you tell people in prep for public speaking? What other advice do you have? 

Perrin Kaplan: Oh gosh, don't over speak. Messaging is just a really, really important tool. It takes people multiple times hearing something before it really sinks in. So people that come with, let's just say you've got three things you're going to focus on in your presentation or in any of your marketing efforts, you have to pick the messaging that is not like a fact. You know, the whatever company serves water to millions every day, that's a fact, but that's not really the message.

You have to talk about what impact it's having and in what way. So messaging is really, really important. And messaging then becomes something you can teach people, but you have to repeat it in multiple different ways in order for people to walk away and really understand your company and you less is definitely way more. But again, it goes back to my first point, it has to be super compelling, otherwise you'll have a sleeping audience.

Lizzie Mintus: How do you go about figuring out the right messaging for your brand? Other than working with you. 

Perrin Kaplan: Yeah, you need to work with us. We've been doing it for so long that it's second nature to us. Um, a lot of times what I like to do and we like to do is just have a deep dive where we're hearing everything that that person has to say, all of what they want to do with the company, why they approached it, what they're thinking, what inspires them.

And you're looking for these little threads. Of what an enticing message might be and then you build around those and then sometimes you do that and then you break it down and remove some and really focus on the main ones. I mean, it truly is less is more. 

If you think of, for a brand, you know, someone buys a Volvo car because it's safe. So that's the brand. You buy a BMW because it's fast. You buy a van because you carry kids, so the brand has to fit and, and then, if you own a van, don't be talking about Ferraris. It's not a logical mix. 

Lizzie Mintus: What do you think all of the best brands have in common? What are some brands that you really admire? 

Perrin Kaplan: They fill a need that the person didn't know they had. I don't know if that makes sense. So, this is a long time ago, but when we launched the Wii at Nintendo, We were in an early interesting market position. We were of the company's the one that was making the money most profitable and Microsoft and Sony were off in their competition again a long time ago, and we just couldn't seem to get that message through that you're comparing two things to something completely different.

And so when the Wii came out and was all about using this, flapping your wings and playing in a highly unique way. My first thought was, okay, they're going to ask us if we've gone off the deep end, and why don't we just stop making hardware and just make software, because it was such a left turn.

But it filled a niche, and the niche came from Mr. Iwata and Mr. Miyamoto, who, Mr. Iwata is now gone. And he's definitely missed, very brilliant leader. That families weren't playing together, the divide of kids going off and doing their thing, or guys playing with their friends, but not their kids. Females wanting to get into the fray, but not having anyone to play with. 

It's all these different generational things where we're all being split up. And it really was an age five to 95 kind of experience. And the idea was to have the controller just disappear so that the precision of everything you were doing, you felt it.

But we had to figure out how to show that in a really unique way. How do you show something where you're moving all around? It seems normal now, right? All these different..., Beat Saber and Synth Riders and all this cool stuff. Back then they would have not accepted it, so we had to do it very carefully and very slowly and explain why we didn't show the piece of hardware until they'd already had the experience of the controller, because I knew what would happen.

And we also went to consumers that did not play video games first, before we ever went to media. So we would have like, women's wine night we'd have. We wanted to see your citizen homes. We did multi generational things where we'll come to your house and you can have an event that you have to have grandma andgand grandpa, and you have to have the parents and you have to have the kids.

And showing them the simplicity of the joy because what you're selling is fun. That's all you're selling is fun and it breaks down the barriers and we would hear amazing stories. One gentleman who is a chess master and it's always on TV. He started to cry because he said, this is the first time my sons have wanted to be with me. Like our homes, it's a little messed up and we're able to do this stuff together. And I can't tell you what it means, but we carefully marketed it so that it would have a role. And then it became something that completely shifted the industry.

Other companies followed quite quickly. 

Lizzie Mintus: Can you talk about all of the steps that led up to that? You're going to launch the Wii. You said you took a lot of baby steps in order to get to the finale. Can you break down those baby steps? 

Perrin Kaplan: There's a logical order that I think people mostly use when they're launching products or services. It's steps one through 10, whatever they may be. We really flipped it. We had to look at the sensitivity of the market situation and perception of where Nintendo was at that time and build a program that did the proper order of the proper things to garner the support that we needed in order to truly launch it.

And so at the end of the day, the support came from the consumers. It didn't necessarily come from an article telling you, you should go get this. It didn't come from, anything other than that organic. And so the third party validation of a mom saying, we all play together every night as soon as we're done with dinner. Like, everybody plays. That kind of validation could not come from me and have the same depth of meaning. Because I work for the company and obviously I support the products. So it just goes back to the messaging. 

We figured out precisely the messages that we're going to resonate. It's the first system ever where the entire family can play together on an even playing field. It is the least complex system because the controller is precise and you don't have to push a variety of buttons. We figured out that's where I'm saying it fits a whole, the marketplace had not filled. And then it got people to come out and try it. And then we're like, this is so fun versus we're coming out with our seventh hardware system and you'll get to play Mario. That's not really relevant. 

Lizzie Mintus: How does strategy differ when, I know you work. You worked for Nintendo, and according to your website, you work with Intel and Microsoft, really large brands. So, what's the differentiator there? Is it the same kind of fundamentals? Or, once you already have this big existing brand, how do you stay true to it? How do you evolve it in a way that is in alignment with a bigger vision? 

Perrin Kaplan: Well, that's where we named our company Zebra. It was every zebra a different stripe, and every company has a different need. And so you won't find us doing the same program for each company. We work with indies that are really small, that have really meaningful stuff that we want the world to see. And then we have really top companies. 

And so the indies, we try to be really creative, but get them organized in a proper way to grow a business. The larger companies, we try to urge them to be more creative because sometimes they get stuck in their own rules and layers of approvals. And try to get them to be a little bit more creative and assertive in some different ways.

Because then people are like, oh my god, did you see the thing that so and so company did? It was super fun. And it's not something they would normally do, but you're pressing them to loosen up and get creative. And still have it fit within all the rules. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, probably a balance of doing something fun and different, but not too fun and different.

Perrin Kaplan: Yeah, right, so it fits. And the other thing is presence. So a lot of companies will announce and show what they're doing and then you don't hear from them again for like eight months. So having continuous cadence and this is where so many companies and individuals really failed to make social media work for them. It is the first place people go. And if it is dormant, or doesn't have current stuff, or you see they haven't posted since October 2023, it shows that you don't have it together in the right way, in terms of, is that person going to invest their time and attention in you or your products? All these things have to go together, and everything has to be fresh and current, and you have to have a cadence.

So, let's just say you don't really have anything to talk about in terms of your products. Well if you're a leader, refer to different trends, and give an opinion. Re share things that are relevant in your realm, but that you find interesting. There is no lack of content that people can create, and having a cadence is just really important.

Lizzie Mintus: I wanted to ask you about startups because I just talked to a founder and he is fundraising. And he doesn't have a lot that he has said about his game. But sometimes people are very transparent, very early about what it is they build and what they intend to do. Some people want to announce more before they fundraise, some want to announce less, and there's not really a rule book, right? Some things work for different people, but how do you figure out How much to say, and at what stage to say it. 

Perrin Kaplan: That's so interesting. I think this is why I chose, I started out as a journalist, and then I went into governmental communications in the Senate and whatnot. And I loved all of it. But I think my calling is in trying to figure that out. And it's a little bit of a sixth sense. A lot of it has to do with what's happening currently out there. A lot of it has to do with what is expected next from your company. You have this, but then what would you have after it? Just a lot of factors go into making that recipe. And with us, you won't find the same recipe duplicated because every company has a different end business goal or goal.

We work with a lot of nonprofits as well. And so their messages are completely different having very little to do with actual products and more about emotions and functioning and bullying and supporting games that are focused on the environment and justice and a variety of things.

So we kind of float along a really large range. But it's the sixth sense for knowing the cadence and what to say and when to say it. And then also how to pivot quickly if something doesn't stick. 

Another thing is crisis management. So often there'll be some crisis that the company didn't expect and it could be from a consumer that had something bad happen, bad experience, and somehow it got out into the press. Or it's misconstrued and it got out into the press. Systems that go down. There's just all kinds of things that couldn't be stressful and how you manage that and being authentic and truthful. Companies have got to be truthful. They have to be authentic. You can't lie because number one, it's not right. And number two, that's not going to last long. And if there's something that's an error, do you say it's an error? This is how we're resolving it. And it won't happen again. And we hope you support us on X, Y, Z.So kind of a lot to consider in that. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, I'm sure you get brought in for a lot of crisis management. What are some of the most common crisis that you see? Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's buckets that are like, you know, these are the most common situations. Then how do you recommend people navigate them? 

Perrin Kaplan: I would say a crisis could be a negative review or someone, you know, it's not writing kind of what you're hoping. They're not seeing the goodness of your product. And then that can maybe go viral, that's a concern. Another is, if someone feels like they're bullied or left out, or there's discrimination of some sort, depending on the product, that's not uncommon. Layoffs is a huge one. Helping prepare people for that. 

And other odd things. I mean, at Nintendo, this is again years ago, but we had the case where the controller was smashing into the TV screens. I don't know if you recollect it. Because people would, it would slip out of their hand. And so the company pivoted so quickly. I was so proud. They made these little straps and all you had to do was sign up and the straps will be sent to you. And it was just done fast and they were really good quality. 

So proud of that pivot. But also people were asking, I don't see this happening in Japan. Are Americans like doing this so that they can break their TV and get new TV and see you? And you know, we have to think about what's the key message around that. And the message, honestly, is American homes are pretty big. Your distance is much further than in Japan. 

Lizzie Mintus: That's very true. 

Perrin Kaplan: And it's fact and you're being accurate in it. That is why Japan had far fewer incidences and now we're just able to propel further, faster.

Lizzie Mintus: Do you have any other examples of companies that have had some kind of crisis, not necessarily that you've worked with, but examples of what to do that come to mind lately?

Perrin Kaplan: I won't get too deep in this, but there's an example that's related to the Middle East and the conflict there and the company wanting to, add in different holiday things and respecting multiple different holidays and the concern that it would really blow up.

We were fully prepared for that. Here's step one, here's step two, three, four, five, to make sure that we're listening, but also that we had calculated what to share in a way that was authentic to the company and it worked out really well.

Lizzie Mintus: Good. I watched a great video of some founders explaining why their company was closing and thanking everybody. I forgot the company name, but it was so touching and it was so real and it was so authentic and I really appreciated that and I feel like it builds trust. 

Perrin Kaplan: Like you would work for those people again. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, of course. 

Perrin Kaplan: Yeah, there's a company here in Seattle, Convoy. So transport company. 

Lizzie Mintus: Oh, yes. 

Perrin Kaplan: They accidentally got out over the skis. They were just humming and their ideas just so great. And the leader was super smart and he was devastated. I mean, COVID ripped apart an awful lot of companies in a really awful way. It's been a really painful matter of five years for businesses and people refining their place and their feet on the ground. But the way it was dealt with in terms of why it happened, it's just really sad. But yeah.

Lizzie Mintus: That was shocking. 

Perrin Kaplan: They said, yeah, it came hard and fast and we're very sad ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to have that happen to your business, but yet you need to take care of your people. So you're in pain. 

That's why they say it's lonely at the top and it can be.

Lizzie Mintus: It's very true. Yeah, they handled it really well. There are some companies who've done interesting things lately, that will not have such a great reputation. 

Perrin Kaplan: No, and I think that's really hard because, you know, you're a recruiter, and when you're recruiting people for different companies, their interest in a company is not only in the position and the fit, but is that a company's essence that I want to work with and work for?

So companies really have to be careful how they do it. So when they're having their amazing, profitable days and they need to hire, you want people to come and join you because you have a great culture and you do take care of your people. We try really hard to take care of our team. They are all the links in the chain.

Lizzie Mintus: They are, yeah. When things are good and when things are bad. I feel like that's right. People need to have a steady care, right? When things are good, I think people's care goes here. Things are bad. And it just depletes, which I'm seeing a lot of. And it's interesting because things will be good again. 

Perrin Kaplan: And I think lessons aren't being learned because we're seeing it done poorly over and over and over again.

And I'm like, I'm not sure what part is missing, why the lessons not being learned because successful companies are a combination of many of the people that are there. It's not just one leader. It's not just a management team. It's all the way down to the person who's at the front desk. If you're, you know, have a physical location. It's just, it's important.

Nobody can, the left can't do it without the right. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah. Everybody definitely matters. And everyone is your brand, no matter what role they're in, like you said.

Perrin Kaplan: Internal communications are essential. Yeah. They are as important as external. 

Lizzie Mintus: Interesting. Any advice for the best way to handle it internally? 

Perrin Kaplan: I think, authenticity is a really important thing.

Having tools where people can hear about what's happening a lot, whether it's an intranet or however you bring people together, having different groups that focus on different things that can provide counsel and ideas and being open to them, talking a lot. 

I also, I will never forget the governor of Washington state. He used to do this thing called management by walking around, and he would leave his office, and of course, governments and all these different buildings, he would just show up. And he would go by someone's cubicle, and he'd say, hey, I'm governor so and so. What's your name, what do you do? Give me feedback. How's your day go? If there's anything you could change, what would it be? Do you like the food that's served in the building, and whatever it is, and just show up and be interested.

Don't always just be at the top and focused only on that. You have to go and be interested because that's what makes a company. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah. When I had my first job, I worked at Nordstrom. And I think we talked about this once. I learned so many great skills. I learned how to talk to anybody. I learned how to deal with difficult people.

Yes. I learned a lot about clothes, but I really, it's very transferable skills. Once I was on the floor and I helped somebody with a return and it was just a person and I chatted with him. And then I received a letter from Blake Nordstrom and he sent me a personal email. 

Perrin Kaplan: About what a good job you did.

Lizzie Mintus: I was just this 18 year old boy. 

Perrin Kaplan: You've never forgotten it. No, I have never forgotten it. And Blake was a wonderful, wonderful person and left us far too soon. Really wonderful person. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, and a great example. I think of how how to run a business. I also had one of his maybe it wouldn't have been a son. One of their relatives came in and I thought that he would be an arrogant jerk because. It's just kind of what you assume from somebody who has that long with family business, but he told me that he was a dishwasher at the grill and he needed a shirt, but his budget was only 30, which I will also never forget.

Perrin Kaplan: That's so cute. That's so awesome. But that's how you learn to make your own way. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, definitely. 

Perrin Kaplan: And if I had not been in the trench as a reporter, and then, I've been in the trench in all my different jobs. How can I be a good leader that guides people to do it if I've never done it? 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah. That's really important. It's what I hope to teach my kids when they're a little bit older. They can work as a dishwasher too. 

Perrin Kaplan: Well, sometimes in large corporations, people advance up in a corporate manner, but it can tend to be siloed. So they rise up, they become a senior vice president, but they're really skilled at this area, but they're now being called upon to make opinions and all these other areas. And sometimes people find that they're inadequate to do that because they've not been in a lot of the trenches. So in that case, you have to go around and really talk to people. 

What are the thorns in your division? What are the roses? What works well? And really get educated because you do represent them. Yeah. 

Lizzie Mintus: So I want to talk about PR a little bit and, um, I think people find themselves suddenly in a much more outward facing role sometimes. What do you advise on how they can best prepare for their new role and talking to the media and talking to the press?

Perrin Kaplan: Well, you definitely need training and you need to be having your messages down because it's very important to be able to repeat them so that the reporter walks away really understanding what your company is doing and what your intentions are. If you, I remember a gentleman who did an interview and he got nervous and he, I think got asked two questions.

He spoke the whole time and then the article came out and he was not happy because he's like, I didn't say that. So you said that in about 78 other things. You can't give that many choices because they're going to take what appeals to them. So you're not controlling the story. And I don't mean the word control. I think Media really want to know what you think. I don't think they wanna be given a football field. You know, conversation and things that doesn't really help them define what story they're looking for. Or they may pick something that, to you is very small, but you did say it and they make it larger.

So I think and being conversational and being calm and speaking real words. Communicate just like you're talking to someone, but understand what you're saying. And if someone asks you a question you're not comfortable with, just like in real life, in business, say, I'm not prepared to answer that question, but I will tell you X, Y, Z.You can go back to one of your main points that you're really focusing on as a business. 

Lizzie Mintus: But you have to have those main points down and thought through. 

Perrin Kaplan: The one thing just about companies and their brands is if you don't brand yourself and make it really clear, you will be branded by a competitor.

And so now you're in the corner facing the wall and you have to figure out how to get out of that. When you have the opportunity to brand yourself and grow yourself and not have to chase down behind someone new. 

Lizzie Mintus: Why do you think people don't take the time to do it? 

Perrin Kaplan: I don't think they understand it. And I think, you know, business people that start from like a financial background and become leaders, they haven't functioned in the art side. Yet, the art side hasn't functioned in that way. That's why you really need to blend and you need to honestly really respect each other. I just think a lot of companies don't know how to do it. They don't have people around them to show them how to do it. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, that's hard. So I think it's so important to join a business group or group of other people who have startups that have businesses or businesses.

Perrin Kaplan: Yes, yes, yes. 

Lizzie Mintus: And maybe not even in your area. If they're in your area, that's cool. But you can learn so much from people that have businesses that are very different from yours, 'cause you all have the same issues. 

Perrin Kaplan: And I think if you can someone who is a good friend or a mentor, someone that you really respect, asking them to spend a little time, it doesn't matter what level you're at, really. Everybody needs someone to bounce their ideas off of. 

Lizzie Mintus: That's true. 

Perrin Kaplan: It's not a weakness at all. It actually shows the desire to continue to learn what we're supposed to do until our last days. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yes, very true. Can you talk about strategies to have a successful launch? I know so many companies are developing in the open these days, which is best strategy. And sometimes games still come out of nowhere. So I know there's People are zebras, companies are zebras, and there's not a one size fits all, but what do you have to say about that? 

Perrin Kaplan: Well there isn't, but I will say unless you have some viral capability, the marketplace, I'm sure you've seen the articles lately about how there are actually too many products for people to pick from, too many games.

Lizzie Mintus: Yes. 

Perrin Kaplan: And so you need to be loud and clear if you expect to be seen, and it's not, you know, like we're better than that company, it's this is who we are and why we are for you. And why we'd love you to come and try this and how much fun you'll have.

The companies that stay super quiet, unless they are a major brand and there's an inkling that EA is going to come out with said title that everybody has loved and it's a version two of it. Then they can hammer it when they're ready, because everybody's still always listening and hoping that it will happen. But if you're a small, indie company, you know, you have to have that differentiation and you have to be as active as you can for people to hear you. 

It's a really complex world now, so there's not, step one, two, three, four. There are always going to be different routes in different ways depending on the company, the leaders, who they are, the circles that they're in. There's some companies that come in and they have a creative idea, but they don't really know anybody. So you have to start there. They need to meet other business people first before they tell their story. Or tell their story, but don't get too far into it until they've met companies that can help them carry that awesome message. 

Lizzie Mintus: So that would be kind of companies that can be their advocate, their sponsor, really? 

Perrin Kaplan: Yeah. Or just in a conversation that, you know, it's a lot of new AI companies. Did you hear about the company that announced that they can do XYZ? I'm super compelled by that. Because, I met with the CEO last week at a dinner and she was really smart about this idea. I explained why. 

Lizzie Mintus: She was? 

Perrin Kaplan: Yes, she was. She is. 

Lizzie Mintus: She's really smart. Yeah. Can you talk about the evolution that you've seen over the years? Like from your Nintendo days to now, it seems like there are so many different channels of social media and so many different ways to get your message out there and so much noise.

Perrin Kaplan: I have to say that I have always felt, one of my wonderful client partners is in this realm, but if you have not spent enough time in this industry, for you to come straight in, in management, let's just say you come from auto or something, it is so complex and there's so many layers and history. Those of us who've been around a long time understand all these different layers and nuances and what you should pay attention to, what you shouldn't, what happened in the past, what companies, this, that, the other.

It's hard for people to come in at top management positions and figure out how to make decisions and navigate this because you just don't have, it's a really thick business with a lot of history. It changes daily. Our industry is very fast. You've just watched even in the last year, last two years from Metaverse, Web3, this, that, other, now it's AI, just a lot of movement around. It's complex, and so when people say, I really want to get into gaming, I can't help them understand the whole of what is happening. 

They just need to come in at the point that they come in and just begin to learn from there and just take in as much as you can over time. 

Lizzie Mintus: There's a lot to learn. I think about that when I hire new people and how much information you have in your recruiter brain. You have in your brain to this company launched this title that did well for us. The culture is like this, the pay is like this. Here's the bonus structure. It definitely takes time. 

Perrin Kaplan: Yeah, it does. Well, and also understanding, where does mobile fit in? Where does console fit in? Where does VR fit in? Now, where does Apple Vision Pro fit in? Where does cloud gaming fit in? Where do board games fit in? You know, all this stuff. 

And then, there's a lot of the technologies that are moving into fashion. Does that Play into gaming? and, you know, a lot of games for good and a lot of really insightful stuff that's being made. So they make it, but then what do they do with it?How can they make their company work when they're doing something that's for good? 

Lizzie Mintus: There are a lot of companies that are doing great things, especially with immersive technology. 

Perrin Kaplan: I think very much so. 

Lizzie Mintus: It's an exciting time, even though the industry is a bit dark right now. I just went to Dice and there's a lot of positivity. A lot of new companies start, deals happening and I think always in the hardest of times, there are new opportunities. 

Perrin Kaplan: Yeah, and I don't know if maybe companies overhired during COVID because it was remote and that they felt like they needed to have more people, but our industry goes like this. It's not, there are other industries that are, I'm sure are kind of just like this. We are like this. And if you, if it's dark, it's going to get sunny again. And then it will get, some form of dark again, and it will get sunny again. And those of us who've been here this long have seen all of these. And I could tell you probably about every single dip, but we come out shining again, and it's a good time.

And if people are losing their jobs, which is just really painful to see, bright days are absolutely ahead. Just because you were laid off doesn't mean you don't warrant an amazing job in your future. Sometimes circumstances are really not personal. And it knocks them off their feet and they feel very ungrounded and not sure what to do next.

And working on your self confidence and self love is really important to get yourself lined up for the next wonderful thing that's going to happen in your life. And I think that interviewers can sense that if someone is just down, down, down and lost. You have to bring the very best of yourself. Because I always tell people, your car has a really small rearview mirror and a big wide front dash.

You're supposed to be looking forward and less back. And they bring that pain to interviews and it's really hard to not do that. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yes. 

Perrin Kaplan: But the brighter times are ahead. That has to be left in your rearview mirror. It has to. Because it technically is no longer part of you. It's the work that you did is part of you. But that situation is not really part of you, of who you are and your qualifications. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yes. People do get really down, but I had a great chat with someone who was at a very high role at a large company yesterday, and he told me that he didn't even realize how unhappy he was until he was laid off. And now he's able to go on this new adventure.

It's hard and it's scary, but he's free. And he has some wonderful severance from the company and the ability to take a step back, think about what it is that he really wants. That's incredible if you are in the right headspace to see it as that. 

Perrin Kaplan: And people have to remember that you can do whatever you want in life. I'm very much a believer in if I really want something, I'm going to go get it. And I'm going to make it great. And then when I'm done with that, I'll go get something else because at the end of the day, it's just about having a fulfilling life. You aren't what you do for a living. So we always have to practice our own confidence and us just as humans.

Lizzie Mintus: Very true. And figuring out what you really want and what makes you excited to do every day. And if you're not doing it, try and figure out how to get there. That's why I talk to people about this all the time. Why do you want to work at this company? If you have seven kids, you live in San Francisco, you are the single parent. Like that's an understandable situation. You need to make money, but most people are not in that situation. It's really a blend of what is the thing that makes you fulfilled and lets you live your life to the degree of comfort that you actually need to live. Maybe not what you are doing when you got a job at Metta right out of school.

Perrin Kaplan: And like the executive that you mentioned, I mean, they're free to now think of all the other things that they want to be doing. And that's so exciting. It's scary. And your confidence is pushed. I'm here to tell you, you can do it. 

Lizzie Mintus: You can. Okay, now I need to hear about some stories from you being the queen of Nintendo. Can you share about getting the job and working your way up and whatever? 

Perrin Kaplan: I know people always give me that name or you're a legend and I don't totally understand it to be honest. I just was there and doing what I thought was a good job and bringing the company more open to people to understand. And I wasn't shy about it.

People say, what do you do for a living? I say, well, I sell joy. So what an awesome job that is. But I will say that I had to come out of state government and national government and was working on environmental issues. And I got called by a recruiter that said Nintendo is really interested in someone who knows nothing about games and I was like, that'd be me.

So, when I went there, I was fully expecting to meet someone named Mario. And this is a long, long time ago. And I was brought to the Princess Peach board conference room, and I thought, I don't understand. This is bizarre. This is like borderline weird. This is not, it's not right. Only to realize the glory of all of it. And it's just so fun. It's so wonderful. 

Lizzie Mintus: And you started there and can you tell a little bit about working?

Perrin Kaplan: Started there and there was no, yeah, there was no division. And so I had the joy of building it really from the ground up. Super, super fun until, I believe a couple people at Microsoft had called us The Machine at one point because we're just constantly like getting the brand out there and doing unique and different things and launching things in different ways.

Like how we launched Pokemon and the Wii and all the great games that they've launched since my time of leaving, the Zeldas, just beautiful, beautiful art and content. But I just had a, just, I loved going to work there every day. It was great. And we built our team up and we created a team called Team Nintendo of younger people that, they would be the ones to fly to New York and be on some fun show.

It didn't have to be like, you know, the executive. It had to be someone who does that all day long and plays games all day long and make it more relevant. So, when you've got Jimmy Fallon playing with someone, it should be someone who does that. Or in the past, it would be, you know, Reggie.

Doing that and that's another person that you build a brand around because he's a very strong leader very vocal has a lot to say very thoughtful Strong presence and so you can build a brand around that. It's harder to build a brand around people that are quiet and don't want to share their lessons 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, for sure. Can you talk about navigating, you didn't come from games at all. How did you go about informing yourself of the industry and who taught you? Did you teach yourself? Did you have this mentor that really guided you? 

Perrin Kaplan: I taught myself, but of course there were people around me. And I used to go over to what was the game counseling area and people would be on the phones all the time and I would hear, yes, and you jump on the third, lily pad and then you touch the frog on the head three times and a crown will pop up.

So then I'd have to go and look in that game. I'm like, I want to find that spot. I feel like the industry was younger at that time and I feel like I grew with it. And so my learnings were at the same time as a lot of other people. I was there when Nintendo just was not as public.

And so we had the fun of building it that way. And the team that remains there, they're all so awesome. They do a great job. 

Lizzie Mintus: I talked to Ed and I asked him what I should ask you, of course. And he said, I should ask you a little bit about how you remain friends even though you were competing head to head.

Perrin Kaplan: He's so cute. That is just part of me. I will say that I became close with Robbie Bach when he was a leader. Ed, you don't need to be permanent enemies. You're both trying to do the same thing. And so I would just say to Ed, break a leg and I'm going to kick your rear and I'll see you at the end of the block.

And he'd be, ha ha ha. So we just, you bond as people that are in the industry. And we've been friends ever since. Unless someone's entirely rude and dismissive to you, then I'm not going to take the time. They're not worth it and they're going to figure out their own path. That's probably not going to be super pretty because people that make enemies in the industry, like it's a small, huge business.

And so being kind and respectful is very important. But that was just me. I decided like, Ed was awesome. And then we can be buddies. And then when we'd win, I'd say we won. And when he won, I'd say, I don't want to talk about your win. It's all in jest. It's all in jest. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah. That's a new lesson. I mean, so many people, even from recruiting people, the first person I ever hired, I contacted. It's a new job. He's working at this new startup. People come around in the craziest ways eventually. 

Perrin Kaplan: They really do. They really do. And we're all trying to do the same thing, essentially. And again, as I said earlier, you aren't what you do for a living. There's so many other parts to Ed and his wonderful family and all the things that he brings to the fore in terms of our field. And just as an individual, I just love him. That was what he did at that time. And that was what I did at that time. And now look, we're doing totally different things and we're still friends.

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah. So you've seen so many games and products succeed and fail. What do you think the recipe to making and launching a really successful game slash product is? 

Perrin Kaplan: The quality of the experience at the end of the day, consumers are very savvy. And in our industry, they have really very vocal opinions. If they don't like something, you just go into Reddit or Discord and it's crazy town. Really good quality. Those who love what you bring will advocate for you till the cows come home. Those who are finding it a disappointment will say so. And it directly affects sales. People really listen to each other. 

If a company is rushing because they said it would launch on a certain date, usually having to move that a lot at some point can be a problem, especially if they're a public company, you have to get it right.

As one of my former bosses taught me, you cannot put the toothpaste back in the tube. And it's really true. So quality is it. And for us in the marketing field, if the quality of the product can't withstand that, it's very hard to market something long term. 

Lizzie Mintus: Right. Yeah. Seems like that's been an issue with so much VC in the game industry. Not that all are bad, but you do need a lot of returns or be in a public company within a certain amount of time. And I feel like people Cram to get their game out and it doesn't work.

Perrin Kaplan: They do. And I think also for VC investments, you're not only investing in the idea, you're investing in the people and you have to have the right people leading those companies.

It's again, that whole creative, running a business, sort of theme.. I've seen businesses, they get a lot of money and they fritter away because they just don't know how to manage it. And it's super heartbreaking. 

Lizzie Mintus: But hopefully there are some great lessons that have been learned lately. 

Perrin Kaplan: So many incredible companies that do so well. And there's so many smart people in our industry. So I'm focusing on all the things that are maybe not right. There's so much, I mean, not, not right. There is so much that is right. 

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, definitely. There's a lot of energy right now. People are trying new things, and people have severance packages and opportunities to think about what they really want to do.

Perrin Kaplan: Yeah, and talk to as many people as possible. Your sixth sense will tell you where you want to be. It's the place you can't stop thinking about other people. You can't stop thinking about that's where you need to be.

Lizzie Mintus: Yeah, you could be a recruiter in your next life.

Perrin Kaplan: I could be you never know. And then since you're a recruiter, I'll have to be nice to you.

Lizzie Mintus: Okay, we'll be friends. I have one last question. Before I ask it, I want to point people to your website zebra partners net. 

The last question, please tell me about your dog rescue business that you started. 

Perrin Kaplan: Saving Great Animals is just my love. It's a large organization now. I started it when I was at Nintendo, actually, when I was starting to matchmake people that were, had to move their animals on for whatever reason, and those who were looking. And I thought, this is crazy, I'm doing this just within the company.

And so, I volunteered for an organization and I had my head around a different and better way to approach it. And we are now 17 years old and 9,000 dogs adopted out. The majority of those would have lost their lives. Things are tragic right now in the shelter and rescue arena. So many people giving up their COVID animals, which I find to be a sheer disappointment just in humans. Because that animal gave you a lot of love when it was convenient for you.

So we have an amazing team. We're located in Seattle and Bellevue. We work all, you know, up and down the coast. We also have taken dogs off the meat trade in Korea, and we are receiving some dogs from Palestine in a couple weeks.

Lizzie Mintus: Wow. Exciting. 9,000. How many dogs do you have? 

Perrin Kaplan: I only have two. 

Lizzie Mintus: Only two? Okay. 

Perrin Kaplan: Two, two little precious souls. And I encourage people to try fostering. It is incredibly rewarding and you are literally saving a life and we are 24 7 with you. We just have a great team that can help in every fashion.

Lizzie Mintus: We've been talking to Perrin Kaplan, who's co founder of Zebra Partners. Perrin, where can people go to find out more about Zebra Partners or your dog rescue organization? 

Perrin Kaplan: So ZebraPartners. net. One word, Zebra Partners, and SavingGreatAnimals. org, and we're on social. We're on Facebook and Instagram and of course our website. Lots of cute doggies every day. 

Lizzie Mintus: I'll have to follow. Thank you so much. 

Perrin Kaplan: Thank you for having me.

Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. To catch all the latest from Here's Waldo, you can follow us on LinkedIn. Be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes. We'll see you next time.